One thing Tristan Nill loves to do is throw grenades towards people he dislikes. Now as far as i can tell there is no rules for DR’s for throwing grennades.
To generate the DR to hit a target with a grenade does the GM use his own judgement on the difficulty and use the throwing skill. (which could generate some pretty hard DC’s compared to Defence Ratings).
And in terms of missing, is that also completly based on GM judgement?
[color=#BF80FF:1cc2d]Mind if I take a stab at the problem? <!—s:)—>{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif<!—s:)—> This isn’t by far set in stone as this is just me musing off the top of my head. Probably more specific and more steps would be outlined by others (Devs or GMs who have more experience than I do).
Firstly, is the target standing still or running for his life? <!—s:P—>{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif<!—s:P—> I think there’s something in the book about movement rates and difficulty settings on how fast something is moving. Of course, you have to take into account against that how many ranks, he has in throwing objects. In comparison to a grenade launcher, the DR would probably be higher because you wouldn’t have a sight to help with aim so that will depend on his own unassisted aim skill. Is he running or standing still? If he’s running to get out of the blast range, it’ll put the DR up higher.
Now here’s the neat thing about AO, they have in addition to the DR, there’s a sort of the sweet spot so if you go way over, you can overshoot in your miss as well as undershoot the grenade.
As for the target, if he’s standing and unaware, he probably doesn’t even know it’s coming and will have to roll with a reaction check. If he does know, it’s coming either through ESP, e.g reading minds at the time or just superhuman reflexes, his DR will be based on how well the equivalent of the reflex save roll which looks at dodge, run or getting out of the way as in, using an object as a shield. There are probably similar situations in the book but all you need is to adapt. But yeah, most definitely, the target should have a reaction roll if he’s at all alert to see if his DR of making an attempt to get out of there. Both DRs will be high but the interesting thing to see is who makes theirs and who doesn’t. <!—s;)—>{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif<!—s;)—>
If you’re more story-oriented and don’t want to get into the nitty gritty of all the specifics (Sorry Dave), it can be simply a roll each player / NPC makes to see whose roll is higher with the Agility score. <!—s:)—>{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif<!—s:)—> Hope that helps.
I would probably make a normal strike roll, with the usual DRs for cover and stance, but use the Throwing Skill instead of Athleticism or Physical Acumen. Whether the Reaction Check comes into play would probably depend upon GM’s discretion. The biggest question is whether or not to add the +8 to the DR that applies to shooting attacks. I would, simply because without it there would be way to much grenady death.
EDIT: I don’t have my book with me, so I can’t look up the rules for throwing. Myr brings up a valid point with overthrowing, so that might complicate things…
[quote:520d9]EDIT: I don’t have my book with me, so I can’t look up the rules for throwing. Myr brings up a valid point with overthrowing, so that might complicate things…[/quote:520d9]
That’s just the thing for me… I, for the life of me, have not been able to locate precisely [i:520d9]where[/i:520d9] the rules for throwing are.
And really, throwing a grenade, it would seem to be less of a ‘targeted enemy’ situation, as hitting somebody with a grenade wouldn’t make the thing explode… To me, it would be a ‘targeted location’ situation. Horseshoes and hand grenades and all that rot…
And that’s where I get confused.
What kind of DR would a 1 SIM area of sidewalk/tall grass/berber carpet/etc have? I would assume the DR to be higher than 8… and I’m sure there’d be some sort of incremental range penalty… but yeah… kinda lost.
Fudging the details works for now, but would be nice to know what’s what for sure.
Grenades would use the Throwing skill for making dice rolls. I’d probably calculate the DR rating just like you were using a throwing knife of shuriken and consider success to be having the grenade land at the target’s feet. Just keep in mind that grenades have fuse times which is how many segments that target has to run away from the grenade if he is already moving or has an active segment coming up.
I’m very inclined to disagree with the idea that the DR for tossing a grenade within a reasonable range of an opponent would be the same as shooting, slashing, or bashing him. Considering that the most effective blast radius for a grenade is, what, 10 SIM? All you have to do is get the thing within a 20 SIM diameter (10 SIM to the left, 10 to the right, ahead and behind, etc.) Even just getting it into the same SIM wouldn’t be NEARLY as taxing as actually hitting a target. The opponent’s Defense Rating really shouldn’t even come into play, if you’re not hitting him specifically.
Now, maybe if you wanna be fancy, and nail the guy in the forehead with the ‘nade before letting it go off in his face, but I’m sure anyone would agree that such a case would be the exception, rather than the rule. If this were the case, THEN I would believe that the check be made against the opponent’s Defense Rating, with the only difference being to use the Throwing skill rather than any of the normal combat related skills.
Also consider, that even if a character FAILS to get a grenade within 10 SIM of the opponent when it goes off, there is still a chance that the opponent will be caught in the blast radius, albeit for less damage, as is stated in the grenade descriptions. So even a failure can still cause damage to an unlucky opponent, so long as it isn’t a severe failure. For instance, a lot of similar checks in Dungeons and Dragons will state that if the player fails a check by five or less, they’re close enough that it could be considered a recoverable failure. Over that, however, its an out and out failure. This, of course, is just an example for your consideration. In my opinion, I would say that the same could be applied to throwing grenades in AO. If you fail, but not severely, I’d say the grenade falls just outside of the optimal blast radius.
[quote="GER":7c481]So i guess it really is up to each gaming group to figure this one out then…[/quote:7c481]
GMs are certainly welcome to handle this in any way they feel is appropriate, but here are our thoughts on the issue:
We believe Grenades should be treated in a similar fashion to Throwing Knives and Shuriken for Attack Attempts, except for the blast radius of course. So the following apply when we run our games:
Skill to be used: Throwing
Range Rating: 1
Include the +8 for Nominal Range?: Yes
All normal Ranged Combat Modifiers apply as well if you are trying to physically hit your target with the actual grenade before detonation. If you are looking to simply hit the target with the blast radius, we use a Called Shot and pick a spot on the ground where it will land. We also increase the difficulty for factors such as throwing into tricky spots like windows, small openings or throwing them against obstacles so they bounce around a corner, etc.
We use some additional rules to account for missing on the Attack Attempt. If the roll is less than the DR required to hit, the grenade doesn’t land where you want. How much it misses by depends on how harsh you want to be. For us, if the Attack Attempt misses by less than 5, the grenade landed close to where it was intended (2 or 3 SIM away).
If the Attack Attempt misses by more than 5 but less than 10, then the throw was off in either direction or distance and our GM makes a judment call based on the situation (4-8 SIM away). If the throw misses by 10 or more than both the distance and direction are off (more than 8 SIM from target).
Critical Failure rolls are typically solved by using a d8 to randomly pick the compass direction the grenade will be thrown and a d20 to determine distance the grenade travels in that direction (taking all obstacles into account of course.)
Thanks for the info MSL! One more grenade question. If you’re using the grenade launcher, would it be the same rules but with the launchers skill instead of throwing? I imagined the grenades fired by the grenade launcher would go off on impact instead of being fuse-based but I can see how that possibly might make the grenade overpowered (which of course is why they are used in real life <!—s;)—>{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_wink.gif<!—s;)—> )
[quote="Rich Brownell":93c6e]If you’re using the grenade launcher, would it be the same rules but with the launchers skill instead of throwing?[/quote:93c6e]
You are correct. If using a Grenade Launcher to propel grenades you would use the "Launchers and Mortars" Skill. However, the Range Rating used would change to that of the weapon rather than the Grenade itself. As mentioned above, throwing a grenade uses a Range Rating of 1 because it is limited by your physical ability to get the grenade to the target accurately.
When using a Grenade Launcher, the Range Rating of the weapon is used. For instance the CDEM F3000 and Pitbull ACS use a Range Rating of 4 for their Grenade Launchers.
Of course, it is also possible to design your own Launchers that may use a Range Rating of 3 if they are less accurate for some reason or a Range Rating of 5 if they are more accurate (Although we don’t have any examples in the Core Rulebook, perhaps the launchers receive telemetry data from flying drones or UAVs or can be programmed to hit areas via GPS data….)
[quote="Rich Brownell":93c6e]I imagined the grenades fired by the grenade launcher would go off on impact instead of being fuse-based but I can see how that possibly might make the grenade overpowered[/quote:93c6e]
By default, grenades used in Grenade Launchers are set to explode on impact, however talk to your GM to see how s/he feels about using timed fuses that only explode after a set amount of time. Perhaps your Launcher could be equipped with a selector switch used to change detonator type and fuse lengths.
We hope that we have answered your question adequately,
My original post on this somehow disappeared, so I’ll try again.
Under equipment, standard grenades are listed as 200T, while high yield grenades are listed as 100T.
Is there a rationale behind the lower cost for the more capable device, or is this something else for the errata?
I’ve gone with the assumption that it was a mistake and swapped the prices.
My question is about the Fuse. Does the fuse tick down on the segment it’s thrown, or does it not start until the second segment. Once thrown does it explode at the beginning of the appropriate segment, the end of the segment, or at the time of the initiative count of the person that threw it?
[quote:5db1c]As for fuse time, don’t assume the round that it’s thrown in counts. "1 segment fuse" would make sense as going off next segment.[/quote:5db1c]
I would say that but the only grenade with a 1 second fuse is a gas grenade. Since the grenade grows in area each segment it stands to reason that the grenade would begin spewing fumes the second you pull the pin as it does in movies and television.
Admin, what do you assume as the DR is for throwing a grenade into an empty square instead of throwing at a specific creature. Basically landing in an empty square and using the area of effect rather than using the target creature as the point of impact?
And what about the maximum range of the grenade, I can’t find that either.
