I have a player who’s running an A.I. He dropped his strength to 1, and then took cybernetic arms, which have a str rating of 15. When figuring out secondary and tertiary levels, like physis and stuff, do you calculate using str 1 or str 15?
I would have him do it from his base strength, not the strength of one cyber arm he added. Sounds like he is being a munchkin on points, which is against the spirit of the game.
Personally I would probably have said he is unable to use Cybernetic Arms. A.I.s are robotic entities. They don’t have biological components that are required for cybernetics.
See I would allow it for someone who has an AI that was a servant AI before adventuring. Then was like “Damn, I am too week for melee, let’s get an awesome beefed up main arm with a bangin claw on the end and pay all the extra to have it be strength 25!!!” It makes sense if looked at from the right angle, but this seems more like he just wanted to get the extra points at creation and figures he could dupe the system. Although, jokes on him, he only gets that strength in an action that involves that arm.
Still, for me that leaves the problem that Cybernetics, by definition, are the combination of biology and technology to create a new and improved component. (Arm, Leg, eyes, etc) But A.I.s don’t have any biology. So how would the biological component of the device work?
From Webster:
Main Entry: cy·ber·net·ics
Pronunciation: \ˌsī-bər-ˈne-tiks\
Function: noun plural but singular in construction
Etymology: Greek kybernētēs pilot, governor (from kybernan to steer, govern) + English -ics
Date: 1948
: the science of communication and control theory that is concerned especially with the comparative study of automatic control systems (as the nervous system and brain and mechanical-electrical communication systems)
There isn’t really anything biological in that definition except for an example. I would consider the electrical impulses of the nervous system as a similar mechanical-electrical control system as an electric memory material based system.
(To get a little sciency: an electric memory material is similar to the ones that use heat. (you know, the stuff you can compress and deform, but as soon as you heat up, they change shape.) I imagine in a future world of tech, similar things could be created for machinery. (It is in fact being made now, I could find the link for it, but it is in an IEE journal somewhere) so as you run current through the ‘muscle’ it contracts and changes shape. Similar to human muscles.)
I calculated all other values based off the Str I had without the arms. (Which is 9).
I believe I did this correctly and I’m not “cheating” the system for additional points. I have a 30 in Agl which more then makes up for the 9 in Str for Athleticism.
And there are specific Cybernetic Augmentations JUST for AI, (EMP Protection). So, no, AI are not banned from Cybernetic Augmentations. It’s specifically mentioned in their race description also.
You probably did do it all correctly, but it doesn’t seem “fluffy” to drop your strength to 1 then buy a cyber arm so you get a Str. of 15 for melee with that arm. However, to each his own.
(*Thanks*)
You probably did do it all correctly, but it doesn’t seem “fluffy” to drop your strength to 1 then buy a cyber arm so you get a Str. of 15 for melee with that arm. However, to each his own. Also, please, if you could refrain from using a religion in a negative connotation, I would take it as a kindness.
I apologize I changed it.
And the reason I dropped Str to 1 was because you replace your original arms. So originally I made a mistake thinking replacing both arms dropped Str to 1. That’s why I changed it back to the base 9 instead. It makes more sense to my way of thinking that Str is tied directory into what you can lift, move, carry, etc which is primarily done with your arms. This was further reinforced for me since Cyber Arms affect Str and Cyber Legs affect Agl and the fact that you only have one Core statistic.
Going to have to agree to disagree on this one. While I’ve not focused on the Cybernetic sections too much yet as it hasn’t come up, I’ll probably focus on it a bit more now. But I’ll have to say, at least in my sessions, Cybernetics are a no go for AIs. It just doesn’t flow. Instead I’ll probably make robotic variations of cybernetics devices that do similar things. I know that some would say that its just semantics, but consistency as well as accuracy is important to me.
Going to have to agree to disagree on this one. While I’ve not focused on the Cybernetic sections too much yet as it hasn’t come up, I’ll probably focus on it a bit more now. But I’ll have to say, at least in my sessions, Cybernetics are a no go for AIs. It just doesn’t flow. Instead I’ll probably make robotic variations of cybernetics devices that do similar things. I know that some would say that its just semantics, but consistency as well as accuracy is important to me.
*shrug*
The rules specifically imply AI using Cybernetic Augmentations. There is even an EMP protection Cybernetic upgrade just for AI. But if you want to say they are robotic I don’t really see the difference myself, I’m not to educated when it comes to the realms of science fiction.
1. AIs may use cybernetics
2. AIs have a minimum starting level of 9 for all Qualities - you cannot sell them back.
3. AIs do have a biological component - their bio-neural matrix. It is this fact that allows them to be influenced by mind control wielding effects and state shifting such as Fear. This is a game mechanics feature for the sake of balance.
Any of these, of course, can be modified for your specific campaign. If you wish to deny cybernetics altogether, or modify how they work to rationalize how you want your campaign to be, you are certainly free to do so. You could also justify modifying the cost to take into account that they need to be modified for AI use, or limit the number of Impurity points based on the AIs Physis in some way to keep a limit on the amount of cyberware is being used. As others have pointed out, however, some options are specifically designed for AIs and others are simply upgrades or modifications. There will probably be more options in upcoming products, and it would be a shame to deny these to your players with AI characters when all the others will gain new abilities such as Ascension, new wielding abilities, or other powers. Cybernetics are really the only way in which an AI can differentiate itself from others of a similar model, as well as having the ability to try new things.
I have another question about cyber arms, if I may.
Assuming that spending CDP on core qualities (and for AI characters, the extra Core Quality Points) happens at the very beginning of the character creation process, and purchasing equipment near the end, what will be the result of the following decisions:
- Character purchases points in Strength to a value higher than 15 (say 20, for example)
- Character acquires cyber arm
What will the character’s strength then be? 15? 20? Is it dependent on what arm you use? And if both arms have a different Strength value, how do you calculate Manageable Weight?
